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  1. #1
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    First time breeder, need a little help.

    Hi, this is my first post on these forums. I've used them before, but never created an account, but I decided since I'm wanting to start breeding myself now might be a good time to start. I'll try to keep this organized.

    Alright, where to start? Well, I own 5 snakes right now 3 of which being pythons, and I'm about to purchase an ivory to start my first breeding project. Aiming to get into yellow belly genes, mainly because of the beautiful combos they've been apart of lately. Plus I love a white BP. I'm by no means new to reptiles, just the breeding scene. I have been researching about BP breeding for a while now though, well over 2 years, and I know all the main stuff I just want to get some more detail in parts I feel I need help in.

    1. Incubator- For Christmas I got Zoo-med Reptibator so obviously this is what I'll be using for the eggs. I'm planning on buying the hatch-rite that's on LLLReptiles site, unless anyone suggests other. But I need some info on how to setup an incubator. This is one part I have gone into detail yet since I haven't even started breeding. But anyone with experience with the reptibator, or any basic help on setting up an incubator is very much needed right now.

    2. Two Dads- I have a normal female and a yellow belly male juvie right now (my other BP is just my first normal who's more a pet than a breeder). I've talked to people who've used two males on one female, and this was one reason I wanted to get the ivory as well, to add more to the yellow belly genes. If I breed the ivory male and the yellowbelly male to the normal female is there a chance I could get an ivory in the clutch? Say I used the ivory for most breeding attempts and locks and the yellowbelly every couple times. Is there anything I should do differently with two dads?

    3. Heating- I know I have to cool my snakes, so I think I'll move the breeding pair to the basement when I do. Should I still keep individual heat pads on the tanks or not? And when the snakes are pairing heat pad on or off?

    4. Follicles, Post-Pairing, and Ovulation- What are the follicles, and how do I know when there are present? How do I get them to be present? And after the pairing and ovulation what's is the care from then on forth?

    So those are it for now. What I've used for researching breeding has mainly been the breeding guide here, http://www.ballpython.ca/gallery/breeding.html

    Thanks for answers in advance. And please, kind and constructive criticism only

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran Wapadi's Avatar
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    Well I would keep reading thru alot of these posts to start with.....

    1. I cant help with reptibator as I built my own, sorry!
    2. Good idea - Bad idea
    Ivory male to a Normal female = All Yellowbelly babies.
    YB Male to a Normal female = roughly 50% YB babies
    Using the YOUR two males on one female will ONLY DECREASE your odds of YB babies. Mom is still normal and still contributes 1/2 the DNA. Two dads CANNOT produce ONE baby.
    IMO sell your YB male as you have a super YB male (Ivory)
    I am using two dads on one female because the dads are TWO DIFFERENT MORPHS. Pastel female to a Lesser Het Red male and a Enchi male. SO I can get babies from both dads individually and hopefully hit a Pastel Lesser Het Red and a Pastel Enchi. But in NO WAY can I hope to make a baby Lesser Enchi!!
    Does this make sense?
    3. I have been breeding for years and I do not cool my snakes. Totally up to you...
    4. As long as your female is old enough (in years) or large enough (in grams) she will want to mate on her own without any help from you. And as long as she is being kept correctly BEFORE breeding then she will be fine while she is being bred. And one day, poof ....she will be wrapped around eggs. This is the very simplified version.

    Good Luck and keep up the reading!
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  3. #3
    BPnet Lifer angllady2's Avatar
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    Hello dear.

    Welcome to the wonderful and heartbreaking world of ball python breeding. It's a bumpy ride that's for sure, but it can also be very rewarding. I'm fairly new myself, with two season under my belt and my third getting underway now. So, I'll do my best to help you out a little bit.

    Question 1: I have no experience with Reptibators, so I'll let someone else tell you about them. I do however know the critical elements for incubation. Rock stable temperatures, high humidity, patience, and a strong will.

    Question 2: If you do invest in an ivory male, when bred to a normal female he cannot produce more ivories. It takes an ivory gene from each parent to produce ivory babies, so the best you would get is all yellowbelly babies. If I were in your situation, instead of buying an ivory male, I would look into getting a double gene female of size that has yellowbelly in her. For example a pastel yellowbelly female or mojavebelly female, a cinnabelly or butterbelly, maybe a firebelly or a pinstripe yellowbelly. With some patience and searching, I am betting you could pick up a two gene female that carries yellowbelly with some size to her for around the price of a male ivory. By following this route, you will be able to produce your own ivories and yellowbelly combos the first season you breed your double female.

    Question 3: I do not cool my snakes. This is a personal preference and not a necessity for breeding. if you do choose to cool your snakes, you need to invest in a night drop thermostat to ensure the temps do not go lower than the snakes can handle and remain healthy. Simply moving them somewhere cooler with no control over how cool is asking for respiratory infections and who knows what else to go wrong. And no you do not need to turn the heat down or off when they are pairing, they will move about for comfort on their own.

    Question 4: Follicles are the early stages of egg development. Kind of like a human female develops an egg in her ovary, and when that egg reaches maturity it is released to allow for fertilization. Same basic thing with snakes. By learning to palpate follicles, you can judge how far along in development her eggs to be are, and know the most opportune time to pair her. She will develop follicles on her own with no help from you. Even females who are not bred get them. It is then up to the female to decide if conditions are optimal for her to lay eggs. If so, she will allow the follicles to develop into eggs and eventually lay. If something isn't right to her, she will stop the development at a certain point and reabsorb her follicles, she will not build again until the following year if she does that.

    I am sure others with much more experience will chime in. But I feel the need to tell you, be prepared for things to go wrong. Sometimes disastrously wrong. Yes a lot of people have baby ball pythons with no trouble at all. But there are many, many things that can go wrong, resulting in deformed or dead hatchlings and sometimes even death of the female. If you are not certain you are prepared to handle culling a deformed hatchling or even having them die before they ever hatch, then you must reconsider breeding. Most of the time, we hear only the good things about breeding, and it's easy to forget all your hopes can be shattered in a single day.

    I wish you all the best.

    Gale
    1.0 Low-white Pied - Yakul | 1.0 Granite het Pied - Nago
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  4. #4
    BPnet Senior Member I-KandyReptiles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptiledill View Post
    Hi, this is my first post on these forums. I've used them before, but never created an account, but I decided since I'm wanting to start breeding myself now might be a good time to start. I'll try to keep this organized.

    Alright, where to start? Well, I own 5 snakes right now 3 of which being pythons, and I'm about to purchase an ivory to start my first breeding project. Aiming to get into yellow belly genes, mainly because of the beautiful combos they've been apart of lately. Plus I love a white BP. I'm by no means new to reptiles, just the breeding scene. I have been researching about BP breeding for a while now though, well over 2 years, and I know all the main stuff I just want to get some more detail in parts I feel I need help in.

    1. Incubator- For Christmas I got Zoo-med Reptibator so obviously this is what I'll be using for the eggs. I'm planning on buying the hatch-rite that's on LLLReptiles site, unless anyone suggests other. But I need some info on how to setup an incubator. This is one part I have gone into detail yet since I haven't even started breeding. But anyone with experience with the reptibator, or any basic help on setting up an incubator is very much needed right now.

    2. Two Dads- I have a normal female and a yellow belly male juvie right now (my other BP is just my first normal who's more a pet than a breeder). I've talked to people who've used two males on one female, and this was one reason I wanted to get the ivory as well, to add more to the yellow belly genes. If I breed the ivory male and the yellowbelly male to the normal female is there a chance I could get an ivory in the clutch? Say I used the ivory for most breeding attempts and locks and the yellowbelly every couple times. Is there anything I should do differently with two dads?

    3. Heating- I know I have to cool my snakes, so I think I'll move the breeding pair to the basement when I do. Should I still keep individual heat pads on the tanks or not? And when the snakes are pairing heat pad on or off?

    4. Follicles, Post-Pairing, and Ovulation- What are the follicles, and how do I know when there are present? How do I get them to be present? And after the pairing and ovulation what's is the care from then on forth?

    So those are it for now. What I've used for researching breeding has mainly been the breeding guide here, http://www.ballpython.ca/gallery/breeding.html

    Thanks for answers in advance. And please, kind and constructive criticism only
    1. Honestly, I think this was a waste of money. Doesn't it only hold one clutch? Sure, it might be fine in the beginning, but later on you'll need something larger.

    If you live in Canada, order from Greg West. I got my incubator from him and it's incredible.

    www.cornelsworld.com

    2. Ivory is a super so if you pair it to a normal, you'll get all yellow belly babies. A yb to a normal would give you half yb and half normal babies. If you wanted ivories, pair your ivory to a yb.

    3. I don't cool down. Too much risk for respiratory infections IMO.

    ---------
    0.1 Dog (Truffles)
    0.1 Naked Cat (Mercedes)
    1.0 Hamster (Pumpkin)
    1.1 Bumblebees (Satyana & Weedle)
    0.3 Normals (Shayla, Rita and Althea)
    0.1 100% Het Pied Ringer (Avalon)
    1.0 Pied (Monsieur Piederoff)
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    1.1 Normal BCIs (Damon and Conga)
    0.1 Crested Gecko (Natasha)
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    0.0.1 P.Metallica
    0.0.1 A.Avicularia
    0.0.2 P.Irminia
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    0.0.1 N.Coloratovillosus
    ?.?.? ASFs

  5. #5
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    I must say this is one of the nicer forum communities I've been on lately. Thanks for the help so far everyone!

    @angllady2,

    I understand what you say about getting a 2 gene female, but I think I still might go with an ivory. I love ivories anyways and I still would like to work worth yellowbelly genes and all yellowbellys isn't bad for me. Thanks for that advice though and sorry for not following it. And it's kinda too late anyways lol, I've already committed to a purchase

    Thank you to both of you though. Both of you explained #2 great though. Again, even if I can't get ivories I'd still like to get an ivory from a beauty standpoint and yellow bellys are something I'd like getting into.

    Still needing help on reptibators though! Thanks so far both of you!

    @Bobbafett, Sorry didn't realize your post at first! As I said though, I've already gotten the reptibator as a Christmas present, also, it will only be one clutch this my first time. In the future I'm going to look into building a custom one. I don't live in Canada anymore, but in the future I still have family there so if need be I can order something there.

    And I'm starting to think I won't do a cool down now. I've dealt with RI before, ouch, not something I'd like to go through again!
    Last edited by Reptiledill; 12-30-2012 at 01:44 AM.

  6. #6
    BPnet Veteran Zombie's Avatar
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    Ditch the reptibator, I have owned one in the past. Good for beardie eggs and what not, but not really BP eggs. It will only hold about one clutch of BP eggs.

    Make sure to do your research. Google and the search function here goes a long way to helping you on your path.

    Like others have said, if you are getting an ivory male (super yellow belly) then your single gene yellow belly male is not necessary. Put the ivory to anything and all offspring will carry the yellow belly gene.

    Cooling is not necessary, I do not cool. Some breeders do cool, that's their preference. They will readily breed year round regardless of cooling.

    Follicles are basically the developing eggs. It will take practice and experience to determine building behavior as well as learning to palate for follicles. The follicles calcify during ovulation. Once you have seen an ovulation you will know what to look for.

    Hatch rite has worked for many people, I have never used it. I use plan ole vermiculite, some use just perilite, and others use a combo of the 2. I also use a light diffuser grid on top of the substrate so the eggs don't come in direct contact with the vermiculite. Make sure if you do buy vlite or plite, that it contains not fertilizers or pesticides.

    Like I said before, make sure you do your homework and learn all you need to know. Things can and do go wrong, being prepared will help...
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  7. #7
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    Re: First time breeder, need a little help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Ditch the reptibator, I have owned one in the past. Good for beardie eggs and what not, but not really BP eggs. It will only hold about one clutch of BP eggs.

    Make sure to do your research. Google and the search function here goes a long way to helping you on your path.

    Like others have said, if you are getting an ivory male (super yellow belly) then your single gene yellow belly male is not necessary. Put the ivory to anything and all offspring will carry the yellow belly gene.

    Cooling is not necessary, I do not cool. Some breeders do cool, that's their preference. They will readily breed year round regardless of cooling.

    Follicles are basically the developing eggs. It will take practice and experience to determine building behavior as well as learning to palate for follicles. The follicles calcify during ovulation. Once you have seen an ovulation you will know what to look for.

    Hatch rite has worked for many people, I have never used it. I use plan ole vermiculite, some use just perilite, and others use a combo of the 2. I also use a light diffuser grid on top of the substrate so the eggs don't come in direct contact with the vermiculite. Make sure if you do buy vlite or plite, that it contains not fertilizers or pesticides.

    Like I said before, make sure you do your homework and learn all you need to know. Things can and do go wrong, being prepared will help...
    Like I said, can't really ditch the reptibator I've already got it. And I'm only expecting one clutch this year so it's perfect for me this year, in the future I'll buy or make a better incubator.

    Thanks for the other info though.

  8. #8
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Re: First time breeder, need a little help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reptiledill View Post
    Like I said, can't really ditch the reptibator I've already got it. And I'm only expecting one clutch this year so it's perfect for me this year, in the future I'll buy or make a better incubator.

    Thanks for the other info though.
    If its still new in the box could you take it back for store credit or sell it to fund a build on a big bator?
    Not being rude but I have had some people try to get me "what they think I need" reptile stuff so I know the frustration there.

  9. #9
    BPnet Veteran Zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptiledill View Post
    Like I said, can't really ditch the reptibator I've already got it. And I'm only expecting one clutch this year so it's perfect for me this year, in the future I'll buy or make a better incubator.

    Thanks for the other info though.
    If you haven't paired the snakes yet, chances are you have a few months before you need an incubator. You could sell it on eBay or craigslist and take the money to buy a broken mini fridge off CL (or get a free one), then put heat tape, tstat, and a fan in it, you're good.

    The reptibator doesn't hold humidity well and it's thermo/hygro meters suck. They only measure the temp at the top of the reptibator. It will take a lot of finesse to get the temps/humidity where u need them. You also have to plug up all the little holes all over the reptibator. It's way more headaches than necessary. It is your choice tho.

    Good luck to you on whatever you decide...
    Last edited by Zombie; 12-30-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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    Re: First time breeder, need a little help.

    Quote Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl View Post
    If its still new in the box could you take it back for store credit or sell it to fund a build on a big bator?
    Not being rude but I have had some people try to get me "what they think I need" reptile stuff so I know the frustration there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    If you haven't paired the snakes yet, chances are you have a few months before you need an incubator. You could sell it on eBay or craigslist and take the money to buy a broken mini fridge off CL (or get a free one), then put heat tape, tstat, and a fan in it, you're good.

    The reptibator doesn't hold humidity well and it's thermo/hygro meters suck. They only measure the temp at the top of the reptibator. It will take a lot of finesse to get the temps/humidity where u need them. You also have to plug up all the little holes all over the reptibator. It's way more headaches than necessary. It is your choice tho.

    Good luck to you on whatever you decide...
    I don't know. I think I'll try to work with it. I haven't even gotten the ivory yet due to the weather. I ended up buying (or will be tomorrow) a 185 gram ivory male from Underground Reptiles. The reason I'm going to work with the reptibator is because my parents have been trying to support me with all this and they were really happy when they got me the reptibator for Christmas. I might try setting it up a few times over the next few months before I even start pairing the snakes just to see what setup to go with. Thanks everyone. Sorry about my delayed response. Kind of forgot I posted this for a few days.

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