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  1. #1
    Registered User BPro927's Avatar
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    Few Genetic questions...

    If you breed two snakes and only one has a co dominant trait, will all the young have that co dominant trait?

    Example 1 I ask of:
    Any snake without spider vs spider: will all the young turn out spider?

    Example 2 I ask of:
    Any snake without pastel vs pastel: will all the young turn out pastel?

    I apologize if my question is ate up!
    Thank you for any and all help!
    ~Brian :-)

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran satomi325's Avatar
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    Re: Few Genetic questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by BPro927 View Post
    If you breed two snakes and only one has a co dominant trait, will all the young have that co dominant trait?
    No. Some will.
    Like breeding a co-dom with a normal. Half should come out normal and the other half that co-dom morph.


    Example 1 I ask of:
    Any snake without spider vs spider: will all the young turn out spider?
    No. You will get some normals.
    Spider x Spider = 25% normal, 75% Spider

    Example 2 I ask of:
    Any snake without pastel vs pastel: will all the young turn out pastel?
    No. There will be some normals.
    Pastel x Pastel = 25% normal, 50% pastel, 25% super pastel.

    Just think of co-doms with a super as a Het.
    Pastels are Het for Super Pastel. If you breed that Super Pastel with a normal, all offspring will be pastels.
    Super Pastel x Normal = 100% Pastel

    Another example can be Yellow Belly.
    Yellow Belly x Normal = 50% normal, 50% Yellow Belly.
    But Yellow Belly can be seen as Het. Ivory.
    Ivory x Normal = 100% Yellow Belly
    Last edited by satomi325; 05-01-2012 at 11:01 PM.

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  4. #3
    Registered User francisco_24's Avatar
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    Chances are 50/50.
    So you might get half with the gene and half without it.

    Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by

  5. #4
    BPnet Veteran Mike41793's Avatar
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    Spider is considered dominant. In thousands of breedings no super form has been found. Some people believe they die in the egg before birth or other stuff. BHB claims to have a super pinstripe but idk for sure, thats a topic for another thread. Anyways spider is considered incomplete dominant i think.
    Pastel is co dominant. In a pastel x normal pairing every egg has a 50% chance of being pastel and 50% chance of being normal. In a pastel x pastel pairing the odds are 25% normal, 50% pastel, and 25% super pastel for each egg. This is co dom bc there is a super form. A pastel x super pastel pairing will yield chances of 50% pastel and 50% SP per egg. A super x super means all supers and a super x normal gives you all pastels.
    Go to worldofballpythons.com and play around with the genetic wizard, itll help you learn all the different combos and odds!
    Balls
    0.1 Cinnamon
    0.1 Cinnamon 50% poss. het pied
    1.1 Fire
    0.1 Hypo
    0.1 Lesser
    0.1 Normal
    0.1 Yellowbelly

    T's
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    0.0.1 B. vagans
    0.0.1 B. boehmei

  6. #5

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  8. #6
    Registered User BPro927's Avatar
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    Re: Few Genetic questions...

    Thank you all for your responses! I have been playing on WOBP for weeks and will do so probably for the rest of my life!
    No matter how many times Ive read it, It just was not clicking.
    I kept running WOBP with pastel and spiders and it was not making all the snakes pastel or spider, so i figured i was doing something wrong.
    Are all co dominants like thoses?

    some have supers and some dont?

    thank you again! you guys & gals are great!

  9. #7
    BPnet Veteran Mike41793's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPro927 View Post
    Thank you all for your responses! I have been playing on WOBP for weeks and will do so probably for the rest of my life!
    No matter how many times Ive read it, It just was not clicking.
    I kept running WOBP with pastel and spiders and it was not making all the snakes pastel or spider, so i figured i was doing something wrong.
    Are all co dominants like thoses?

    some have supers and some dont?

    thank you again! you guys & gals are great!
    No the ones with supers are co dom, the ones without supers are dominant. (Or incomplete dominant technically).
    Balls
    0.1 Cinnamon
    0.1 Cinnamon 50% poss. het pied
    1.1 Fire
    0.1 Hypo
    0.1 Lesser
    0.1 Normal
    0.1 Yellowbelly

    T's
    0.0.1 GBB
    0.0.1 B. vagans
    0.0.1 B. boehmei

  10. #8
    BPnet Senior Member OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    Re: Few Genetic questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by BPro927 View Post
    Thank you all for your responses! I have been playing on WOBP for weeks and will do so probably for the rest of my life!
    No matter how many times Ive read it, It just was not clicking.
    I kept running WOBP with pastel and spiders and it was not making all the snakes pastel or spider, so i figured i was doing something wrong.
    Are all co dominants like thoses?

    some have supers and some dont?

    thank you again! you guys & gals are great!
    Problem lies with how we classify these genes.

    Here is how it supposed to work...

    problem lies with genes such as spider that we have not seen the homozygous form, so it really can't be classified yet. We just throw them in the dominant classification, until we get more information. To get all spiders you would need a homozygous spider, but we haven't seen one yet. (read more about it here) That's why I feel these genes should be separated from genes we know are dominant, I call them unproven dominant. adding to the above table....


    However to get all pastels, you need a super pastels (which is a homozygous pastel).



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  12. #9
    BPnet Senior Member WingedWolfPsion's Avatar
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    Co-dominant is actually incomplete dominance in snakes. It was just mis-named.

    Dominant means that the gene is fully expressed, whether there is one copy of it, or two. For example, pinstripe. The super-pinstripe looks exactly like any other pinstripe, but it has 2 copies of the pinstripe gene, so when bred, it can only pass on the pinstripe gene--thus, all of its offspring are pinstripes.
    Normally, a pinstripe has only one copy of the pinstripe gene, and the other gene is normal, so there is a 50/50 chance--it passes on the pinstripe gene, or the normal copy.

    Each parent has 2 sets of genes (as do we). Each contributes one set of genes in their reproductive cells, to make two complete sets in the offspring. Thus, each individual gets one copy of a given gene from one parent, and the other copy from the other parent.

    Incomplete dominant (co-dominant) snakes include lesser platinum and cinnamon. When one copy of the lesser platinum gene is present (the other copy is normal), offspring produced from breeding the animal have a 50/50 chance of being lesser platinum--they receive either the lesser gene, or the normal gene. If two copies of the lesser gene are present (one from each parent), then what you have is a blue-eyed leucistic, aka super-lesser platinum. All offspring from a BEL will carry one copy of the lesser gene, because it has no normal gene to pass on, thus all will be lesser platinum.

    Genes such as the spider gene only serve to make things confusing, because it is not clear what type of mutation spider actually is--we don't know whether it is dominant or incomplete dominant. All we know is that there are no super-spiders...neither ones that look like a normal spider (dominant gene), nor ones that look different (co-dominant gene).

    Most genetics tables treat spider as if it were dominant, and assume 50% of the offspring will be spiders, but I am not sure that this has been statistically mapped, particularly with spider X spider breedings. So, it's best not to use spider as an example when explaining snake genetics.
    --Donna Fernstrom
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    http://www.eclipseexotics.com/
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    http://donnafernstrom.com
    Follow my Twitters: WingedWolfPsion, EclipseMeta, and EclipseExotics

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  14. #10
    BPnet Veteran H.o.F.R's Avatar
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    Re: Few Genetic questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by BPro927 View Post
    If you breed two snakes and only one has a co dominant trait, will all the young have that co dominant trait?

    Example 1 I ask of:
    Any snake without spider vs spider: will all the young turn out spider?

    Example 2 I ask of:
    Any snake without pastel vs pastel: will all the young turn out pastel?

    I apologize if my question is ate up!
    Thank you for any and all help!
    ~Brian :-)
    looks like everyone in here is doing a great job at answering your questions. all i can offer is a couple links that will help lay it out for ya. the first one will answer just about all of your genetic questions: http://www.vmsherp.com/LearningCenter.htm
    and if you are trying to figure out your odds of what you will get the world of ball pythons has a great genetic wizard that you can pick what morph to use as the male and female and it will give you the percents of what you will get from that breeding along with pics.
    http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/
    good luck and happy herping
    Come see what's new with us at https://www.facebook.com/BFEPetsandSupply

    Happy Herping!!!!

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