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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran Rhasputin's Avatar
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    Ball python morph standards? Shows?

    Is there such a thing?

    If there isn't, why not?

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran RobNJ's Avatar
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    Re: Ball python morph standards? Shows?

    I'll go ahead and paste one of my responses to a similar thread going on right now. Being relatively new to the hobby, I may be in the dark, but this encompasses much of what I have personally seen...

    The only standards are between the breeder and the buyer. People who consistently produce beautiful animals and have produced beautiful animals are known for that, but plenty of people make sales on what would universally be considered "less than desirable" animals.

    Even with something so basic as pastels...NERD, Graziani, Ruppell, Bell, etc...all different animals, but what do you look for? The common sense answer is bright, vibrant yellow. However, plenty of people will forgive a bit of browning out for a crazy pattern, intense blacks or blushing, or something else.

    My opinion on the matter is that balls haven't been selectively bred for long enough(or with enough care) to be able to sit down, discuss, and validate what sets "the standard". And with what really amounts to a 15 year breeding craze, and people breeding what they like, or just breeding with no regard for desirable traits, a standard is impossible to set. If you want a place to look for a nice example of each morph, there's World of Ball Pythons, but anything you'll find to hold to those examples will likely vary greatly.

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    Single Serving Friend jsmorphs2's Avatar
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    Morph standards are mostly opinion right now (except for the obvious poor examples of a morph). And as far as shows, no one has organized anything like that yet. Every discussion I've read on it ends with people being worried about disease/mite transfer at a "show".
    ~Jessica~

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  6. #4
    BPnet Veteran satomi325's Avatar
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    I don't think so. It will be difficult to come up with a set standard.
    I think a single morph can vary from one end of the spectrum to the other quite easily and can be equally beautiful. If there was a standard, then there would have to be a set way a morph will look like. Pastels alone can throw very different looking offspring in a single clutch. Some with busy jungle patterns, others with reduced banding, etc. Color and blushing differ as well.

    However, I believe there should be (and there are unofficial) set guidelines to excellent examples of morphs. (Bright contrasted colors, lots of blushing, reduced pattern, etc etc).

    I don't know. This is a hard post to respond too. Great topic!

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  8. #5
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    Interesting concept but to what end? I don't mean that to be flippant but really, for what purpose? If you look at livestock shows and even 4-H shows, they originated as a means for farmers/ranchers/etc. to display their stock and in turn market it. That's fine and good for a production animal that serves a purpose for food or as a beast of burden (horses, mules, donkeys, etc.) but for snakes? Don't get me wrong, I love my snakes dearly but outside of being a very much enjoyed hobby, they really serve no particular purpose in my life as far as being able to plow a field, carry me over a distance if my car breaks down, being available as a food source if the zombies attack, etc.; they're a luxury pet rather than a utilitarian animal like a dog, that barks/guards the homestead, etc.

    What would be the purpose of establishing a standard? for breeding? and on what basis would you build your guidelines? Brings to mind the saying about beauty being in the eye of the beholder...there are some who like spiders or "dirty"-headed BEL...I'm not a fan of either but if those morphs are what does it for them, by all means, have at it. I like recessive gened animals...other people gnash their teeth and shout expletives thinking of breeding those, lol! I just think it would be extremely difficult to quantify and qualify what is the "ideal" animal in the respective morphs, outside of what is NOT! a quality example of a morph. Throw into that mix normals; some people think they're gorgeous in their own right while others just see a plain-jane animal that's maybe good for breeding but not much else.

    Shows/exhibitions would be cool, if the disease/mite issues could be addressed but how would you grade/judge the exhibitors? It's a cool idea and has a lot of possibilities but also a lot more questions as to the "how?" of it all, at least for me. Would we (herp enthusiasts/breeders/hobbyists/etc.) establish an association such as the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) or the American Kennel Club (AKC) to set the standards and all or...? Would you then have to register your animals and ensure they were up to "morph standards" prior to breeding or...? Obviously people will do what they'll do, regardless, but I would think a responsible hobbyist/breeder would want to produce as high quality an animal as possible, as their reputation is built on their product, so again, what would be the point of establishing standards with so much variation in what is the "ideal" example of a particular morph/animal?
    Before all else, be armed. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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  10. #6
    BPnet Veteran Rhasputin's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses. I understand how hard it can be to develop standards, because I had to develope them myself for the UMC. There are some mice like variegated, which can look 2 completely different ways, but one is prefered for show, though both are attractive to different people.


    I think it would be interesting to have standards for ball pythons and set up shows for them.
    As far as the differences (a normal reduced pattern, and a normal busy pattern for example) there can be standards for both. You could enter the snake as a Standard/wild colour with reduced, medium, or busy pattern, and the snake would be judged according to what you entered it as.

  11. #7
    BPnet Veteran Rhasputin's Avatar
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    youbeyouibei you bring up a lot of interesting questions. You can check out the UMC's web page (I have a link in my signature) and see how we set up our standards for mice, there. It should help with some of the questions that you have for how to clasify all the animals in the show.


    It wouldn't mean that all breeders have to breed towards show standards. It just shows what breeders are capable of.


    Each morph, would likely get it's own category, unless the morphs were incredibly similar. Like in mice there are 2 genes 'blue' and 'leaden' which created a mouse that is the same exact colour. Both of these genes are shown in the 'blue category' with the same goals in mind, a dark blue mouse who is solid with no patches of shading, coloured toenails prefered, white toes or tails are faults.



    EDIT: keep in mind this is very hypotetical, it's not like I'm working on a BP club right now or anything.
    It's just questions from someone who started a club, as to why there isn't one for BPs.
    Last edited by Rhasputin; 02-15-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  12. #8
    BPnet Veteran Rhasputin's Avatar
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    Another question. What defines a Ball python's price? Odds? Or preference? Both?

  13. #9
    BPnet Senior Member Royal Hijinx's Avatar
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    This is a good topic. There is a thread going right now on this subject:

    http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...est-example-of....

  14. #10
    BPnet Veteran RobNJ's Avatar
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    Re: Ball python morph standards? Shows?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhasputin View Post
    Another question. What defines a Ball python's price? Odds? Or preference? Both?
    Supply and demand. Nice female pastels are always in demand, but due to the quantity of them being produced, can only fetch a price of $200 or so for even very exceptional examples. On the other end of the spectrum, male bananas were going for as much as $50-60,000 earlier this year because there were only a handful of them known to be around.

    The odds of hitting certain morphs affect the price as well. If you're selling a double recessive animal, that was likely a project that took years to complete, and therefore can command higher prices.

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