How the Python Ban was passed without a vote

[Kinra]

At the request of my herp society's president I have been looking into how the python ban was passed without going before a congressional vote. This is what I have found and please correct me if you see that I am wrong about something.

What was passed was a regulatory rule with Fish and Wildlife Services has the authority to pass as a government agency. This is different from a law and does not require a vote to pass. For a final rule to be issued it must first go through a process. The process is really simple. First they issue a proposed rule and then give an allotted time frame of at least 30 days (but it can be longer) for the general public and interested parties to give their comments. After that, the agency will try to address their comments and depending on how much has been changed issue another draft for review OR post a final rule.

This is how they were able to make it past Congress without a vote. H.R. 511 which includes all 9 originally listed is still before Congress and the House of Representatives and currently being reviewed by a committee. Bills don't always make it out of committee review, but if it did then it would be up for a vote by both the House of Representatives and Congress before being sent to the President to sign.

At this point the only way to overturn this rule is the federal lawsuit USARK is raising funds for. Also if I understand the process correctly, FWS can propose additional rules that do include the other 5 at any time.

Links that support the information above:
The Administrative Procedure Act which gives FWS the power to pass regulations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adminis..._Procedure_Act

The Rule Making Process:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulemak...making_process

Information about Due Process:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

The Docket Relating to the Python Ban (this is easier to understand if you organize it by when it was posted)
http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketD...-FHC-2008-0015

"The difference between laws and regulations are sometimes
misunderstood. Congress, and only Congress, enacts laws. Federal
executive departments and administrative agencies write regulations to
implement the authority of laws. Regulations (as well as Executive
Orders and Proclamations) are ancillary or subordinate to laws but
both laws and regulations are enforceable. The U.S. Code is the
official compilation of codified laws by subject, the U.S.
Statutes-at-Large is the official chronologic compilation of all laws,
and the Code of Federal Regulations is the official compilation of
regulations." (http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/)

And finally more information on the difference between laws and regulations
http://www.epa.gov/lawsregs/basics.html

I just wanted to share with you all information I found. The fact that FWS has the power to propose rules like this is scary.

[MasonC2K]

I believe that is all correct. Additionally, the only reason 4 were added this time was because USARK provided proof that all 9 added up more than $100 million of business which were have required a more in depth review. So the USFW are peace-mealing them all in. It's only the 4 now. The rest will come.

[Kinra]

I couldn't find anything that said after a certain dollar amount in terms of economic impact they have to have a more in depth review. Do you know where I can find that information because it could be very useful.

[Kinra]

I found the law that caused FWS to remove retics and boas. The Regulatory Flexibility Act forces agencies to consider the impact a regulation will have on small businesses and if it is too significant they will be forced to find a less burdensome alternative. There is no mention of what is considered a significant impact, but it does support the claim that the other 5 were left off due to the economic impact the regulation has. This means that the divide and conquer method will succeed if we don't get this overturned with a federal lawsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_Flexibility_Act

[snake lab]

The federal lawsuit will have to prove a number of things. As i believe the thing we have to do is throw as much at them and see what sticks the thing that scares me is the amount of money the ushs, usgs, peta represents. They can keep spending to try and tie this thing up in court as long as it takes to bankrupt usark. Thats what worries me. In the meantime they can ad species to this ban. It is a suck situation we are in. I have already recieved calls from people trying to sell of animals because they are scared. I hope this doesnt continue. We need to fight this thing in every way possible. Ive heard peopme say dont waste your time on petitions and flyers and all that but hey why not. Anything and everything we can do is what we need to do. Petitions, lawsuits, email bombing politicians, whatever it takes.

[Kinra]

The thing that scares me about the lawsuit is if we lose it could open the door even wider for more regulations such as this. We have to have an extremely solid case or it will turn against us fast. It will be used as a precedence in future cases.

I don't believe petitions and letters are going to change much at this point but that doesn't mean we should stop. I think we need something bigger, something much more public. We need to help the average American see PETA and HSUS for what they are. We need people to understand how easy it is for government agencies to pass regulations like this and what it could mean for them in the future. We need massive positive media coverage.

[snake lab]

The best model we could look at it is the nra which i personally am heavilly involved with. Now granted they have the 2nd ammendment in their corner but they have dealt with some pretty radical laws and groups against them and overcome some pretty crazy obsticles. Now i know people will say its not the same thing but it is. Its about organizing against govt control. This is just another thing the federal govt wants to control. Some i have talked to think this is ban is their way to muscle the industry into paying for a potential permit program and i dont know cause i believe the govt would make more money on taxes from us then they would on permits. What i dont get is why states want to ban retics and boas especially since it represents so much money. Or lost money for that matter.

[wolfy-hound]

The end result is that HSUS/Florida circumvented Congress and simply changed federal law to suit themselves.

They didn't change A law, but by changing the RULE, they made things illegal that previously were not illegal, correct? That means a couple people with a private self-serving agenda just changed FEDERAL law without consent from the voters OR Congress OR the President. They could just as easily change any other rules apparently, and we-the-people have no recourse unless we are rich($150K for a lawsuit).

I've been pointing out that this sets a very scary prescedent by allowing a few people to make a change that makes the general public suddenly be breaking federal rules/laws. Why couldn't they simply add in mainstream pets like cats? Oh... cats are specifically excluded in the Lacey Act... but then, they did just change one rule... what actually stops them from changing another one, once they know they can get away with it?

Why not change the rules about taking guns across state lines? Or transporting dogs? Or cars? They cannot be allowed to get away with this "minor" rule change.

I know, it's not at ALL minor to any of us, but to your typical Joe Public, it's 'just' a rule about giant scary snakes so who cares? We need to get Joe Public to understand how underhanded these people were!

Someone said "Oh, they made a end run around you guys..." and I pointed out it wasn't at all a "end run". They ran up into the stands and changed the scoreboard without making any legal plays at all. Now they can crow how they've won.. with their eyes on how to add in all the other species until they have prohibited all "non natives". Then they'll have enacted HR 699 without ever passing it through Congress at all!