Why is inbreeding so bad?

[BrianaK]

It seems like people are totally against or don't have a problem with it. I'm not trying to start an argument, but unlike dogs and cats, its not like snakes have hip problems, elbow, etc. So why are some so against it?

[RichsBallPythons]

Personal belief. As inbreeding dont harm reptiles like mammals.

If not for inbreeding you would never see over half the morphs in this industry.

[bsash]

It is not a problem with all morphs, just certain ones, mostly Super Cinnamons and Black Pastels. The only reason is with inbreeding these guys is you can get severe kinks and duck billing. Now, this can happen even with out inbreeding, but it is much more common and severe when inbreeding.

Hope that helps.

[seeya205]

You can inbreed with 2 to 3 generations then you need to intoduce a new bloodline as quality starts to go down and higher chance of birth defects!

[Valentine Pirate]

Eh, it's fine for the first couple of generations, but I've heard of problems after that (kinking, duck billing, deformities). They may not have the kinds of joints we have, but they definitely still have problems. I think it's just a personal choice though after that, and a willingness to deal with some of the deformities that may come along with inbreeding after 3 or 4 generations

[John Marker]

I think most of us make judgment a little to quickly when the topic of inbreeding comes up. Now, I am not, by any means, advocating inbreeding animals that produce deformed or that have life altering consequences, such as neurological disorders. But, I believe that any species can withstand the trials of inbreeding, some better than others of course. Reptiles seem to be rather resistant in compared to mammals.

Take a look at the link that I have provided below. It is about rats, not snakes, but it has some interesting points. The article explains the differances between line breeding and inbreeding. It also gives some information about long term inbreeding projects.

http://ratguide.com/breeding/breedin...ng_methods.php

Here are a few quotes from the above link that I found interesting.

In laboratories a line is not even considered inbreed until the 20th generation.

The specific inbreeding of rats was primarily achieved in America. The oldest known strains of inbred rats were started by Helen Dean King in 1909 at the Wistar institute in Pennsylvannia. She had two lines of albino rats, one of which became known as the King Albino (Later named the PA strain).

By 1920 she had reached the 135th generation of inbreeding the PA line.

King also started an inbred strain from wild Norway rats that she caught locally. When it reached generation 35 it was designated the BN (Brown Norway) strain.

Just some food for thought when it comes to what really designates inbreeding. As I stated earlier, I believe that we judge a little to quickly when it comes to the topic of inbreeding.

John

[RichsBallPythons]

Super cinnamon's duckbilling or kinks is not a result of inbreeding. Its a genetic disorder wit hthe gene.

Get cinnamon's from 2 diff lines and you can still get duckbilling and kinks. I know some personally inbreed many generations with no ill effects. Inbreeding is mainly to prove something out. Once proved inbreeding those 2 specific genetics are no longer needed.

[Russ Lawson]

It is not a problem with all morphs, just certain ones, mostly Super Cinnamons and Black Pastels. The only reason is with inbreeding these guys is you can get severe kinks and duck billing. Now, this can happen even with out inbreeding, but it is much more common and severe when inbreeding.

Hope that helps.

As Rich stated, there is no proof of that. Even if it did seem to be the trend, the sample size of inbred super cinnamons/8-balls out there - I'm talking about ones that are more than first or second generation of line breeding when I say this - is nowhere near a significant enough size to quantify that sort of statement. So far it seems that all genetic disorders in desirable ball python mutations are linked to the mutation and present in varying degrees in all individuals of that particular mutation. (I believe this also includes kinking in caramels, though I doubt enough seemingly normal ones have been x-rayed to prove this.)

Inbreeding can serve an important purpose. I'm going to disagree that it is no longer needed once something is proved out because it is absolutely essential, for recessive mutations at least, in order to continue to reproduce a desired mutation. Inbreeding also can play an extremely important role in selective breeding of a mutation. I'm not saying I don't try to avoid inbreeding when possible, but statistically speaking a couple generations of inbreeding is unlikely to have any ill-effect in any species.

[RichsBallPythons]

What i was getting at about inbreeding is no longer needed once genetics are proven.

Once you breed het x het or codom x codom to prove it genetic and get that visual or super. Well then those breeding pair of sister/brother or mother/father no longer need to be bred to one another since the actual visual/super has come from the pairing.

One you have the visual you can proceed that way. But either way it wont harm the species at all if you do continue to inbreed.

[izoid]

It makes it real hard because you don't know whether to call her sis or mom.