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View Poll Results: Should We Stop Harvesting Wild BP's?

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  • Yes

    69 61.61%
  • No

    43 38.39%
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  1. #31
    BPnet Veteran Jay_Bunny's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    I think if we stop the collection of wild-caught ball pythons, we won't see any new morphs and with the market already going down (Pieds are less than $1000!) soon there won't be any money to be made and for many breeders out there who already have many if not all the current morphs available, there won't be any new genetics to work with. Its exciting when a new morph has been found and people are breeding their normals that they hope have some genetic pattern or color to them. If you stop the import of WC snakes, even normal ones, you lose that. Yes, we might come across some new morphs in the wild but even normals can carry all sorts of genetic maybes that we haven't even discovered yet. Now, do I think we should harvest and import every single snake we see, no. Should we scale it back a bit, yes.
    Under Construction.....

  2. #32
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Hey, I know that guy in the video! That's what "they" would say...

    Humanity has a destructive nature.

    But to each his own, I say responsibility is key.

    However, all these captive-bred lines came from wild-caught colonies to begin with. I see it similar to hunting deer, or cotton-tails... there must be a balance.

  3. #33
    BPnet Veteran Matt K's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    I don't mean to be weird, but the proliferation of pet snakes in the wild is well documented. Look at Florida for example. I don't think our snakes would have any trouble adapting to the wild. The ones that did have trouble would be eliminated from the population, and the ones that were fine would go off and have babies--that's just how it works. Given we cannot be sure our animals wouldn't cary with them foreign parasites and diseases, but a part of me doubts this. If any harm were to be done, I imagine it would be an issue of our snakes not having the antibodies needed to survive in Africa, and again, natural selection would iron this out over time. As far as goes collecting snakes in Africa, I can see how it could potentially become a problem. As it stands right now, I think the highest demand is on crazy phenotypes, and stresses on Normal populations aren't that great for the pet trade. Ball Pythons seem to have a relatively high fecundity. If females are reproducing from 2 years old, laying 6-10 eggs per clutch every year for 20 or so years (I imagine this is a ripe old age for a wild snake), that's at least 100-200+ babies over a snakes lifetime. Obviously this isn't sea turtle like fecundity, but, given the snakes hide-in-burrow lifestyle, I'd be willing to bet at least 10-25 of those 100+ survive into adulthood to reproduce. While this doesn't seem like a lot, I don't think we're yet collecting 10-25 normals for every breeding snake out there, as the demand just isn't there for normals like that, so I'd say we're okay right now. I'd also have to disagree with the OP and say that I'm pretty positive new crazy morphs will be found in Africa, new stuff has been discovered consistently over the years. Anywho, none of this is meant to be abrasive to anyone, it's all just my own opinion. I'm in no way an expert in any of these subjects though, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Cheers,
    -Matt


    R.I.P. Steve, I'll miss you more than you could have ever known. I love you.

  4. #34
    BPnet Veteran Mike Schultz's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    There are new morphs all the time... you should see some of the weird stuff we import.

    As for "raping the country of its ball pythons"

    There are plenty of them, and their populations are not being harmed by the amount of exportation that occurs.
    Mike Schultz
    Outback Reptiles
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  5. #35
    BPnet Senior Member WingedWolfPsion's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Short answer? YES.

    Now, for the reasoning. The ball python trade in Africa is big business, and it's run by some tough guys. Those tough guys, however, are also pretty smart. If the habitat of these animals is destroyed, there won't be any more of them to export. Collecting ball pythons from the wild is, therefore, a reasonably sustainable thing to do with the land.
    It's about more than just the individual snakes that are exported. That process could certainly use some improvement--but anything that can be done with the land without clearcutting it is an improvement in Africa.

    Most of Africa is very poor. These people need the money for food. If they aren't collecting ball pythons, they will have to be doing something else--and it will probably be more destructive. The wild-caught animal trade is not a black and white issue, there are many shades of grey there, and many factors to consider.
    --Donna Fernstrom
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  6. #36
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion View Post

    Most of Africa is very poor. These people need the money for food. If they aren't collecting ball pythons, they will have to be doing something else--and it will probably be more destructive. The wild-caught animal trade is not a black and white issue, there are many shades of grey there, and many factors to consider.

    I do agree, the people do need the money for food. But I would like to find out how much a ball python catcher in Africa makes per snake. I would imagine its not even 1/10th the amount that the snake is going to make someone at a reptile show once it's exported to the US. I mean...when the very first Pastel was imported I'm sure it sold for 100's more than some guy in Africa made to collect it.

    Thanks to you WingedWolf....I really like that part that I bolded above in your quote.

    And the food thing is a very serious part of the export of Ball Pythons.
    Someone had stated that even if we don't import them for pet trade they'll still be eaten. Well, ya....but I would rather see a species go extinct while it supports hundreds of thousands of people as a sustainable food source, then for it to go extinct from pet-trade. Think of how much a large adult female weighs. So, when one gets imported for pet-trade....(assuming it's not also sent out for skin-trade) it's basically taking....3-5 lbs of meat away from some starving family.
    FUBAR

  7. #37
    BPnet Veteran Matt K's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    P.S. This is completely unrelated to this thread, so forgive me for thread jacking--but the female in that video that had been sitting on a clutch is absolutely ENORMOUS! Maybe it's just the video, but that looks like one big mamma.

    Cheers,
    -Matt


    R.I.P. Steve, I'll miss you more than you could have ever known. I love you.

  8. #38
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Hi,

    I just have to point out you have completely misunderstood what is happening in that video clip.

    Read this.


    dr del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to dr del For This Useful Post:

    SpiderBP (12-03-2009)

  10. #39
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by dr del View Post
    Hi,

    I just have to point out you have completely misunderstood what is happening in that video clip.

    Read this.


    dr del
    Thanks for that link...ya, the Youtube video didn't have a description under it...

    But even though they were studying those particular Ball Pythons...the men that were guiding this doctor...were trappers...it even says so on the page of the link you provided. So yes, I misunderstood and thought they were trapping/collecting them in that video....but the men were trappers/collectors.
    Thank you for that link.
    FUBAR

  11. #40
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Hi,

    Yes if you watch the full dvd you see the eggs being taken to incubation pits and the gravid females being placed in bins until they lay - after that they are generally released again.

    The quality of the video on the dvd does lack a little something ( focus and clarity mainly ) but it is intresting to see how the Captive Farmed and Captive Hatched animals are kept and collected.


    dr del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

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