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View Poll Results: Should We Stop Harvesting Wild BP's?

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  • Yes

    69 61.61%
  • No

    43 38.39%
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  1. #11
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post
    all it would take is a return shipment to Africa of some of these snakes.
    Thanks for clearing up that one guys post...he confused me

    Ok...so you are planning on what? Taking adults/subadults that have never lived on their own and releasing them into the wild? Even with their instincts, chances that they would survive and be able to produce a next generation are slim to none. How many people on here talk about how "my snake knows feeding time....they are always right there at the edge of the tub ready for their food on the tongs" (or something like this)
    Yes they have instincts, but they...like every other living creature, have the ability to adapt. They "get used" to being fed from tongs. Being fed F/T. Living in a tub.

    It's even worse if the plan is to release a bunch of babies who aren't accustomed to captive living. Then they have to survive twice as long as the subadults to make it to a point of being able to reproduce and re-establish the wild population.
    FUBAR

  2. #12
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Then you could always fund breeding programs in Africa with already established snakes that exist there, helping the snakes there repopulate by reducing the likelihood of them dying from predation.
    Ball Pythons 2.2 Normal, Lesser, Fire, Pastel
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  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Oxylepy For This Useful Post:

    SpiderBP (12-03-2009)

  4. #13
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post
    I'm not saying "hey lets go out with Ball Python catching machines and dig up every last Ball in Africa and ship it here" I'm just saying lets not stop all imports entirely just because hey we have a lot already.

    Its definitely good to see that pet stores aren't taking WC animals anymore and almost exclusively sell CB animals now.
    I will agree with you to an extent. Morphs like Pastels (I know it's not the most "sought after" but this is just an example) that their are PLENTY of on the market and being bred here in non-native countries to the snake....Normals....

    I still don't think we should keep importing certain morphs because there is a "possibility" of there being a different genetic make-up and creating a new morph....I mean, I am not religious by any means...Not at all...but I am afraid we are way past the point of "Playing God."
    FUBAR

  5. #14
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBP View Post
    It's even worse if the plan is to release a bunch of babies who aren't accustomed to captive living. Then they have to survive twice as long as the subadults to make it to a point of being able to reproduce and re-establish the wild population.
    Do not the baby balls already exist and have to thrive on their own in the wild? Do we think that the animals are entirely incapable of fending for themselves? Any young snakes sent would have the same likelihood of survival as the wild babies.

    But as was mentioned before the diseases that would be introduced could create more of an issue than the released snakes would be helping.

    Bringing it back to African based breeding programs.

    Also if only the visible morphs are removed from Africa, then the snakes that are there would have no problem reproducing with one or two less snakes every few years.

    Again, I'm not proposing we go grab up all the snakes in Africa and bring them into the pet trade, but I darn well wouldn't say that we should completely abandon importing wild caught animals.
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  6. #15
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post
    Then you could always fund breeding programs in Africa with already established snakes that exist there, helping the snakes there repopulate by reducing the likelihood of them dying from predation.

    I understand what you are trying to say. The thing is...other than the pet-trade, and skin-trade...the only other major factor that is impeding on the continued survival of ball pythons in the wild is the fact that they are eaten as food in many places in Africa.

    You can cut out the skin-trade.
    You can stop importing WC Ball Pythons.
    But how are you going to tell an already starving people, who have been there almost as long as these snakes, that they are no longer allowed to eat them, but we are going to keep importing them because they are *pretty*...?
    Last edited by SpiderBP; 12-03-2009 at 02:55 AM.
    FUBAR

  7. #16
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post


    Also if only the visible morphs are removed from Africa, then the snakes that are there would have no problem reproducing with one or two less snakes every few years.
    I like this. Actually, even more than "one or two"....
    Don't think that I am in this disbelief and think that BP's are going extinct or something. They aren't. BUT, when you wait for the problem to arrive, it'll be that much harder to turn around....
    FUBAR

  8. #17
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Who said I was telling them to stop from eating available resources? I'm not saying they should stop eating them at all. I'm just saying that we shouldn't abandon all importation of WC animals. What if we find a reduced pattern red and white snake out there? That could be worth a hundred thousand dollars, money that could go to helping the local population.

    And a breeding program doesn't mean you stop people from eating the wild animals, it just means you set up an area for the balls to breed in and remove predation from those balls to help to boost the wild population.

    Addition:

    My whole argument is for pulling out potentially valuable animals that can help to earn the people in Africa money, not to stop them from eating the animals they can get, not to continue bringing thousands of animals into this country, not to interfere with the local population in a huge way. In fact I'm saying that if the local population dwindles we should definitely fund breeding of animals in Africa to help boost that so they don't become endangered in the wild but remain, hopefully, locally common.

    And if it came down to needing a breeding program I'm pretty sure that the same people who sent 50,000 letters to the government about HR 669 would be willing to part with 25 to a thousand dollars a year (depending on personal income) to help fund it. If we really care about the snakes then we would all be willing to part with a small fraction of our income to help out the wild population of the species.
    Last edited by Oxylepy; 12-03-2009 at 03:05 AM.
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  9. #18
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    My point about bringing up them eating them was that they aren't going to spend money (that they don't have) to save a food source such as a ball python. They will just find another food source.
    Assuming (and I could be wrong) that the African Nations that have wild populations of BP's don't fund a breeding program...who will?
    Yes we have a big community of herpers willing to donate money if it came down to it...but will it be enough?

    BILLIONS are donated to countries in Africa and there are still children starving, dying...
    Kids don't have food, medicine, shelter? Young women don't have access to feminine products. Rape, starvation, everything horrible you can think of. And still it's not enough.

    You mean to tell me you think people will donate money to save a species of snake, when they won't even save fellow human beings? I mean, I love snakes...but if it came down to saving the ENTIRE population of BP's...or saving 100 children, I'm gonna have to go with the children. And I would think that any other decent human being would be the same....
    FUBAR

  10. #19
    Registered User SpiderBP's Avatar
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post

    My whole argument is for pulling out potentially valuable animals that can help to earn the people in Africa money....

    Let me leave you with this...because I'm about to pass out....

    Of the millions (dare I say billions) of dollars made in the wide-world of Ball Python breeding....how much do you think has gone back to the land that the original morphs were discovered in? (I bet it's not as much as one would hope)


    Thanks for "arguing" with me man. It's been great, and it's been an even better discussion...hopefully some more people join in....

    I'll be on later today to see what else has went down....


    Later,
    SpiderBP
    FUBAR

  11. #20
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    Re: Wild Caught Ball Pythons

    I think all of us would, but the issue with the money donated there is that funds are clearly being misused by the governments of those countries. Look at when we offered to help and the food was rejected because the government of Zambia was told that the food may be a health risk since it was a genetically modified strain.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBP View Post
    Thanks for "arguing" with me man. It's been great, and it's been an even better discussion...hopefully some more people join in....
    Oh, sorry for saying "arguing" a lot of people misinterpret my meaning of the word usage. One can argue a point without having a violent disagreement, when I use the term I almost always mean that it is a discussion of people with opposing views.
    Last edited by Oxylepy; 12-03-2009 at 03:12 AM.
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